Wildly Intentional

24. Are You Making Decisions From Possibility or Protection?

• Season 1 • Episode 24

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0:00 | 51:46

What if the thing holding you back isn't a lack of knowledge, experience or opportunity... but a desire to stay safe?

In this episode of Wildly Intentional, Flick and Verity dive into one of the biggest questions facing business owners and humans alike: are your decisions being driven by possibility, or by protection?

Together, they explore the difference between being genuinely strategic and unconsciously allowing fear to make decisions for you. From opportunities you've talked yourself out of, to risks that have paid off in unexpected ways, this conversation challenges listeners to reflect on what might be sitting behind some of their biggest decisions.

Drawing on her somatic, trauma-informed coaching background, Verity explains how our nervous systems are often working behind the scenes, influencing how we respond to uncertainty, change and perceived risk. The ladies discuss the fight, flight, freeze and fawn responses, and how these protective mechanisms can sometimes show up in business without us even realising.

Flick brings her perspective on visibility, growth and stepping outside your comfort zone, sharing why our brains are wired to fear the unfamiliar and how changing the language we use can dramatically shift how we experience new situations.

And because this is Wildly Intentional, there's also a hilarious real-life example from Verity's weekend where her nervous system took complete control, rational thought disappeared entirely, and the resulting story perfectly illustrates everything discussed in the episode.

This is a conversation about courage, self-awareness and recognising when the safest option may not be the one that serves you best.

 Subscribe to Wildly Intentional for weekly bold conversations on business growth, mindset and building a business that actually works for you. 

Come and say "hello" to us online - you can find Wildly Intentional Podcast on Facebook and Instagram.

Don't forget to join us in our Facebook Group to continue the conversation and let us know your thoughts on this episode and if you have ever felt the same as we do here.

SPEAKER_02

Welcome to Wildly Intentional, the podcast of business owners who refuse to play small.

SPEAKER_00

This is where we'll have bold talks, honest conversations and dig into what it really takes to create big breakthroughs in business and in life.

SPEAKER_02

We're Verity and Flick, we're two business owners who have built, broken, rebuilt and grown businesses in our own ways.

SPEAKER_00

And we're here to share the lessons, the mindset shifts, and the unapologetic decisions that have really helped us to level up.

SPEAKER_02

So if you're ambitious, you're gross focused, and you're ready to do business on your own terms, you're in exactly the right place. So let's get wildly intentional.

SPEAKER_00

Hello and welcome.

SPEAKER_02

Good morning.

SPEAKER_00

That was very that was very Sing Song you of me.

SPEAKER_02

It was hello and welcome.

SPEAKER_00

A bag. Like a bag.

SPEAKER_02

I've got a fan going, so it's like drying out the air. It's hot, right?

SPEAKER_00

It is. It is very warm. I I am, you know, once we've finished recording this, I will be decanting my laptop to the garden and going to sit out in the sunshine because why not?

SPEAKER_02

Crazy, absolutely crazy. That is like it really irritates me. I think I've said quite recently that I used to be a real sun worshipper, but I don't know whether it's menopause or what, but it's now I mean I'm not moaning. I need to put that out there. I'm not moaning, I am happy when the sun is shining. But when you're my age and you're going through things, the heat is really, really challenging. Sitting out the garden in this right now would be my worst nightmare. I'm literally stuck in an office. I've got no curtains either, in because I'm I literally work for my mum's spare room, so there's no curtains up, so all the sun is blaring in. So I've just got a fan right on me today.

SPEAKER_00

I see I I I am the same. It's the fact that I don't I would never describe myself as like a sun worshipper or anything like that, but I'm very much of I spent years working in an office looking out the window at the sunshine and just dreaming of enjoying it. And now I get to run my business and I'm like, do you know what? It's sunny, I can work from the garden, I can, you know, I can step outside and go and work in it. And yeah, I normally do about an hour and then I have to come in and just cool down a little bit and then go back out. Yeah, I think I'll just stay in my office and enjoy it through the window. See, I don't feel like I enjoy it when I'm just staring at it through the window. I mean, my office is it's cool in the morning, but then the afternoon the sun comes around the house and it glares on the window, and there's just no air movement in this office, so yeah.

SPEAKER_02

My dilemma really is that for the last few weeks I've been walking the dogs on the beach every night because I've been finding that's really but it's helping actually both with my fibromyalgia, ironically. The more I'm walking, the less pain I'm in. And it's also obviously helping with my mindset because life is stressful, work is stressful, my my days are full on, so it's like it lets me chill out, but it's too hot to walk the dogs, it's just not fair to them. So it's like, do I just still go for a walk on that beach tonight just to clear my head? It just you know, and it feels like the dogs give you a purpose. Can I be the purpose?

SPEAKER_00

Yes, yes, you deserve that reward, that respite.

SPEAKER_02

It's that like valuing yourself, isn't it? Putting yourself first. That does not come naturally. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

We have to, you know, we have to look after ourselves. We do. Come on, you know this.

SPEAKER_02

I might just take all the kids down. Just yeah, I might drag my husband along. And then I feel guilty because the dogs don't understand why they can't go up for a walk, but it's just you know, unless I take them out at midnight, it's just not gonna be cool enough for them. They will suffer. Bless them. It really irritates me when I see dog walkers out in the heat. It really winds me up. Yeah. I just want to go and grab their shoes and socks and say, Go on, then you walk on it.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

I came home yesterday, right? I'd been away for the weekend and I came home and Paul had put the dogs out of the garden because the shopping was arriving. I was like, What are you doing? He said, Well, the shopping's coming. I said, So put them in the bedroom, not putting them in the bedroom. I was like, Paul, you cannot put those dogs out of the garden. They are absolutely sweltering. Their feet are gonna boom, doesn't get it. Doesn't get it.

SPEAKER_00

Oh no, I'm I'm the same way. I literally normally there are so many dog walkers that I see from my office window that walk past my house. Um, and thankfully, at the moment, with the heat and the temperature, um, that I haven't seen a single one. And I'm like, yes, good.

SPEAKER_02

There's always one though, in there. There's always one like thoughtless person that just thinks when they need a walk, they don't need to like burn their feet. They don't, they can go a couple of days without a walk. It's not like you know, we're in the UK, it is not like this is gonna last forever, is it? We've probably got three or four days and then it's done.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and we're about to rain. Um no, I've I've started watching a load of videos on TikTok as well of like huskies that like it tends to be in America where they've got like super deep slu snow, and the amount of owners that are going like, come on, some lady on the internet says you're not built for this weather, it's like husky. They are absolutely loving life in that that snow.

SPEAKER_02

Oh my god, I've got to tell you a story. Can I tell you a story?

SPEAKER_01

Come on.

SPEAKER_02

Tony, nothing to do with anything we're gonna talk about today, but it will just uh hopefully it'll make you laugh. So I went um away for well, I went on Saturday morning until yesterday morning and met up with a friend who I haven't seen for about two years. So we met up in Bristol and we'd arranged that we were gonna go for this lovely day in Bristol, and then we were gonna go to the Hippodrome Theatre to see Matilda, which by the way is awesome. If you like shows, Matilda was absolutely phenomenal. Um, to the point that I've now booked to go and see it in January with Molly. But anyway, so we went went to Bristol. Now, to put this into context, right? Have you ever watched the it's only been on ITV for a little while, but it's a series called, it's a four-part series, it's based on a true story called Believe Me. Are you asking me if I watched it at something on TV? Okay, so for the listeners, if you've watched it, you'll know what I'm talking about. But it's a it's a true story, and it's about a taxi driver that was sexually assaulting women. Um, and it took years for them to be believed. Right, so that's the context behind this. So we were staying at Cribs Causeway or a Premier Ranger outside Cribs Causeway, which is about 20 minutes from Bristol City Centre. So we had to get an Uber in. So we booked an Uber and it came. And as soon as we got in, the taxi driver was really chatty, and he was like, Can I just ask how much you paid for this taxi? So we said it was 20 points. And he said, Do you know what they're only paying me 12? Okay, awkward, but okay. Um, and then he just made this really big deal about how Uber are ripping them off at the minute and they've up their commission without um telling them and or they've decreased what they get, um, they've up their percentage or whatever. And he's like, you know, it's getting harder and harder to make a living. And then he said that, you know, I've got my own company as well, you know, I do it privately and I have a cab firm, um, but obviously I have to pick up Uber just for you know to make a living. We were like, oh, bless him, this is really hard. Two women. Now I need to explain that me and my friend are neurotic anyway. So putting two us two on our own in a big city is never really a good idea. So anyway, I whispered to her and I was like, Have you got a tip? Have you got cash? I haven't got any cash. She said, No. So he just kept going on. He was like really giving us this sob story about how you know it's really hard to make a living. So we were like, Oh, do you know what? If you've got a business card, we'll just book you directly on the way back. Didn't think anything of it. So he gave us his card and we booked him. So I said, When I get into the theatre, I'll find out what time it's finishing and I'll text you. Fine. So go into the theatre, we said, can you pick us up at 10:30? Um, also, how much will it be? So he texts back immediately and said, Yes, no problem. Um, it'll be £25. So I said, Great see you then. Then just before the show was about to start. Now, bearing in mind, right, from an ADHD perspective, theatre is the one place my brain shuts off. I don't think about anything. The show, I'm completely immersed in it. My friend turns around to me and says, Of course, that could have been a story, you know. I mean, he was very insistent on letting us know that he wasn't making a living, and it could have actually been a story. And he said, The thing is, there, we're gonna get in a taxi where nobody knows where we're getting in this taxi. It's not licensed or tracked with Uber, it's a private hire. And she said, Nobody's gonna know we're in it. If she did flick, I was like, What the hell? What have you just done to me? So, why did you think that way? And she went, I don't know, understand why we did it. And I went, Why did we agree to get in this taxi? Why did we go with because we felt sorry for him. So I was like, What are we gonna do? This is just before the show started. So, what and we're sitting in our seats, we're third row from the stage, and we're like, What are we gonna do? What are we gonna do? Shall we cancel it? And I said, All right, we'll cancel it and get an Uber. And then we were like, We can't get an Uber because he works for Uber, so he could show up anyway. Well, at least it'll be you under Uber. And I was like, How are we gonna explain that to him? That's really rude. So we sat there for ages and then the show started, and we had to put our phones away. So I was like, I don't know what we're gonna do. So the first half of the show, I was completely distracted because now I'm thinking, oh my god, what have we done? We've agreed to get, we pretty much agreed to go and you know get killed if that's what his motive is. We've just voluntarily walked into that situation, and I'm I could I turn around to her, and I'm like, I need to tell you about this program I'm watching. I'll tell you in the interval, but I couldn't concentrate then on the show because my mind was spiraling. I was like, oh my god, we're gonna die. He is going to he's gonna murder us. There's gonna be something we've just voluntarily volunteered to get in this taxi, completely neurotic. Then the interval came and she just said, What are we gonna do? I said, I think we can just cancel it. And she I said, Can we get a bus back? And she said, Well, there are buses. I said, Fine, we'll get a bus back, you know, in the middle of Bristol, going to Crib's Causeway at like half 10, 11 o'clock at night, two women on their own. But that's more sensible idea than getting in a cab. So it was like, okay, we'll get a bus. So she said, cancel it then. So I got my phone, I said, Oh no, don't do look, we're being neurotic. I'm sure he's fine. I'm sure he's fine. He's just trying to make a living. So I was like, okay, I won't cancel it then. And I was like, Emma, we need to cancel this taxi. This is ridiculous. What do I do? And the show's about to come on. I said, for God's sake, just make a decision. And she said, Well, what are you gonna tell him? She said, Oh, that was it. She said, Well, I'll tell you what, we'll get in and we'll just open the windows. We we'll have both the windows wide open the whole journey. I said, What for? And she went, so then we can jump out of them. I said, Have you met me, Emma? What window am I jumping out of? It is not gonna be physically possible for me to jump out of that window. I am not a small girl. She said, Oh no, you get through. I wouldn't, Emma. I would not get through a window. I would not. So then I got my nicotine spray out, right? Because I'm like trying to get off the you know, bad stuff. So I've got a nicotine spray. All right, I will hold it in my hand because if this goes in your eyes, it's really gonna hurt. So I will spray him. If he does anything, I will spray him with a nicotine stick. So we had this plan. We were either gonna jump out the window or we're gonna blind him. We completely convinced ourselves that this taxi driver was gonna do something. And then she said, I showed it, and I'm gonna be really honest about this. I showed him because you know on Uber you get the name of the taxi driver. So I showed it to her, and she said, Oh my god. And I went, do not racially profile him. Don't you dare racially profile. She went, No, no, no, I'm not. She said, but she said, Well, this is gonna sound bad, but I'd say it about any. She said, What if it's a sex trafficking ring? I just looked at her and I went, Well, Emma, I'm not being funny, but that is bargain basement. If that is his intention, it is bargain basement if he thinks that we are a good candidate for that. I said, Don't think we match what they're looking for. Not being funny, but I don't think that's his motive. Anyway, I said, I forgot it, I'm just gonna cancel it. Well, what are you gonna say? I said, I'm gonna say I don't want to get in a cab that's not an Uber, really sorry. And she went, You can't say that because then if we get an Uber, and I was like, Emma, she said, she said, but we'll get in the cab and we'll take a photo of it and we'll tell him we've taken a photo. I was like, okay, whatever. And in the end, I went, I'm gonna cancel it. So she said, tell him, blame Paul. Blame Paul, tell him that your husband doesn't want you to get in an Uber, and a taxi is not an Uber. So I messaged him and I said, I'm really sorry to mess you around, but my husband um isn't happy with me not getting but getting in a taxi that's not an Uber. So sorry. This was five to nine, so that we were meeting him at half past ten. So we gave him plenty of notice. Silence didn't even acknowledge the message. Now, bearing in mind, he'd answered immediately after I booked him, went silent, not even a okay, no worries, or look, you are safe, you can take a photo, or anything like that, or yeah, I get it, I understand. Thanks for letting me know. Nothing, radio silence. So I said to her, the thing is, Em, now he's got my phone number, he's got my name, and we told him where we came from. So he also knows where I live. Oh well, he's not a stalker. Oh, Moyd murderer, sex trafficker, but he's not a stalker. That's different. So we came out of the theater, right? And you come out this different doors, and we'd ended up coming out of a back alley. So we walked, and I just stopped and I went, how are we getting home, Em? How are we getting back to the hotel? What are we doing? Do we don't even know where we are? So we walked to the main street and we saw a bus. So we were like, right, we need to get that bus. So we had across this road. She drags me across the road. His cars come in, like speeding through the streets. I'm like, you're gonna get me killed. Forget the taxi driver, you are gonna get me killed. We get over to the bus stop. We're literally about to step on it. I said, but um, this goes to Cribbs Causeway. We're not actually going to Cribbs Causeway, we're staying outside. So I said, we're gonna get to Cribs Causeway, then we're gonna have to get an Uber to our hotel. Therein lies the problem. Oh, yeah. So she drags me back across the road, this busy road, without looking left or right. We stand in this taxi rank. I said, we'll just get one from the taxi rank. I said, so the unregistered taxi rank, we are now gonna get a taxi from. So then she starts asking people in the queue, is any of you going to the Premier In Cribs Causeway? And I said, What are you doing? She said, Well, we could share. And I said, But they're complete strangers. And I said, And now you told them all we were staying. Anyway, we ended up, we got in this cab, right? Now, the other thing is this taxi driver quoted us 25 quid. Got in the cab and we asked him, and he said, He got his book out, his official taxi book, and he said it's gonna be 35. And we were like, Oh, okay. And then it dawned on me, it was like that's 10 pounds more than this taxi driver was quoting us. So, anyway, I said to him, I've taken a photo of your um license and your um registration number. I said, Please don't take this offensively, but I'm gonna ring my husband, I'm gonna send it to him and just let me know. He said, It's absolutely fine, love. He was really lovely, yeah, yeah, yeah. And and we got back to the hotel safely, but we got inside the room. She locked the door immediately because obviously everybody's gonna know us what room number we're in. And I sat there and I was like, There are so many issues with what has happened, so many issues. Oh my god. Once that was a really bad decision in the first place because we felt sorry for him. How stupid, and that shows how easy it is to get sucked into a really dangerous situation, and then everything that led from that was telling ourselves the opposite of that.

SPEAKER_00

That's how that's how powerful a really good story is because he told you his story that absolutely, and it was, and he didn't let up, and he had just feeling really sorry for him.

SPEAKER_02

And the thing is, I kept saying to her, I said, For God's sake, don't go and watch believe me. I said, Because it is all about a story, a cab to like tell these women to get them to have a drink that is then late. And that's the other thing. She said, Don't touch the handles. I said, Why? She said, Oh, there's this new thing now that if you touch the handles, there's something on it, and within 10 seconds you're out. And I went, How am I getting in or out with a car Emma if I don't touch the handles?

SPEAKER_00

And there's nothing like an easy new rock.

SPEAKER_02

This is just oh my god, it was hilarious. It was it wasn't hilarious because actually it didn't add up. And when you put things together, like the price, the fact he didn't message me back, the story in the first place, there might have been something really dodgy about it, and it was a silly thing to do, and how easy we get trapped in with the power of a good story. Um, but we didn't make ourselves any safer by avoiding it in the first place because we still ended up in a licensed cab. Absolutely, yeah. There was nothing right with that situation at all. So we said next we're gonna go back, but we're gonna take her daughter because she's far more sensible than the pair of us put together.

SPEAKER_00

I was gonna say, please, for the love of for the love of all of the gods, for all that is holy, take somebody who's not as catastrophizing as Emma.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, and we did, we full on catastrophized. But when she said sex trafficking, I was like, I really don't think I matched that kind of you know, sonar of somebody you would I just not to be stereotypical or anything, but I really don't think a 47-year-old overweight person is gonna be the idea, and and quite frankly, if it was for that, they'd be highly disappointed. So, you know, it wouldn't have been worth it for them. But I also definitely was not gonna jump out of a taxi window. That wasn't gonna happen. So all I had was my nickname screen message.

SPEAKER_00

That just the spiral that you two must have gone down in that moment of like, oh do you know what that that highlights as well what we were talking about the other week of like you know, male versus female brains of like we think about all of those things when we get in a taxi of like you know, we Rob and I will get in a taxi and he'll start talking about where we're off to, what we're up to, blah blah blah. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, we do not we do not, particularly if we picked up outside of our house, we do not announce the fact that we're going to you know to London for the day, yeah, when the taxi drivers just picked us up outside of our house.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. No, I know, and Paul said that he said it's never even entered my head that a taxi would be dangerous. He said, of course it wouldn't.

SPEAKER_00

It it's but it's also about the Rob will also go to me, he's like, Well, why are you posting on social media that we're going to London for the day? And I'm like, because I know the people who I'm connected with on social media, yeah. Like, I I you know on my more public profiles, I don't post about it until after we're home, yes. But unlike my Facebook, which I vet who I accept friends with, yeah, on Facebook. That's yeah, you know, that I will post that that but we gave him everything, Flick.

SPEAKER_02

He was really chatty, and he was like, Where did you guys come from then? So have you come on your own? Yeah, we're staying at the Premier Inn, we're going into Bristol, we'll be at the Bristol Home Hippodrome, we'll meet with the Mariette Hotel. You know, she's come from North Hamps, I've come from Brigend. We just laid it all out there for him, and then in hindsight, looked at it and gone, What the hell did we do? Yeah, it I mean it there is a serious, obviously, message to this, but it was hilarious because we did spiral and we were neurotic. We were shouting at each other, we were laughing while we were shouting, but I was like, What are you doing to me? What are you trying to do to me? What do you mean I'm gonna have to jump out of a window?

SPEAKER_00

It was brilliant, it was really funny, but it did highlight how easy it was, how easy it was to get ourselves into that situation because we felt sorry for him because that poor taxi driver could be completely innocent, absolutely, absolutely, you know, genuinely trying to make a living, which is why he's promoting his private taxi company rather than Uber and and you know, you're probably perfectly safe with him because actually the the proportion of taxi drivers that there are in the UK compared to the amount that are in this believe me, yeah, that there are those kind of taxi drivers, like you know, it's the same as you know when you see certain things about certain professions or you know certain religious uh people, you know, and it's like the proportion, and this goes back to what we were saying about the values as well the the other week in that episode, you know, the proportion of people who are bad people, you know, you find them in everything, but yeah, it doesn't mean that they're all bad.

SPEAKER_02

Absolutely, and the poor guy was probably, like you said, just trying to make a living. But I mean there were a couple of things that made it feel a little bit dodgy, but we just shouldn't have ever put ourselves in that situation in the first place with any taxi driver. But it's changed, isn't it? Because I said to Paul last night, it's when I was a kid, when I was a teenager, I just wouldn't hesitate. There was no Uber around then. It was just it was always taxis from a taxi bank or from a uh queue for a taxi service, it was always just getting the next taxi, didn't even think about it. Which kind of leads us on to a bigger topic we're not gonna talk about today, which is the fact that women have to be so careful now in every decision-making life.

SPEAKER_00

When I used to live in a city, uh you know, the the risk of getting in a taxi dro taxi that you were confined to or walking on your own, like you had to weigh at the risk of each.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Terrible then, that's a whole other day's topic. Let's not do that today. Yeah, I wanted to share that with you because it was quite funny. You weren't catastrophizing through, you know, absolutely catastrophic catastrophized through it. Yeah, that's my ultimate unbelief. But still, ladies do not get into unlicensed cabs.

SPEAKER_00

But he was saying he was licensed, surely, because he got his own cabin.

SPEAKER_02

He's licensed, but yeah, don't get into a cab where nobody knows you know, you're in it. And I mean we could have just phoned Paul and said, We're in this cab, this is the registration number, this is his licence number. Could have done that.

SPEAKER_00

But then oh, and then she said, because when far less problematic than what you did.

SPEAKER_02

Absolutely. And when she said um don't cancel it, she said, but but if he kills it, don't blame me. What do you think I'm gonna do? You up there and have a go when we get there.

SPEAKER_00

It's her fault. It's her fault, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

It's not really, it's not really relevant, is it? Whose fault it was?

SPEAKER_00

Oh, that's not if he kills us, don't blame me.

SPEAKER_02

It was brilliant. It was so funny. It was really funny. We were both as neurotic as each other. But it was literally, she just mentioned it just before the opening act. I was like, seriously, you just did this to me now. This moment where my brain is about to switch off. You've just spiraled. It was brilliant. If anybody was actually watching us, it would have been hilarious. This should have been a like a TV show just on that, like two hours of our life. Just yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I'm trying to think of any way that we can segue to what we're gonna be talking about.

SPEAKER_01

I don't think there is any way. Just a funny little story in Tamarity's weekend. Yeah. Actually, I thought we don't apologize apologise.

SPEAKER_02

No, not oh my gosh. I actually think I think I'm getting worse at the sorry thing. I'm just gonna be saying sorry a lot more.

SPEAKER_00

I was gonna say when we first started, I was I was definitely the worst one, but we seem to have shifted.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, absolutely. Alright then, should we talk about what we're talking about?

SPEAKER_00

Should we should we go back to the the the I would say the proper meaning behind this podcast, but you know it's wildly intentional, it's it's it's a bit wild.

SPEAKER_02

Well it is wild. That that was a wild kind of um insight into your brain, I think, was yeah. Yeah. This perfectly sensible 47-year-old who just spiraled out of control over a two-hour period.

SPEAKER_00

So if we if we look at some newspaper articles from Britain, like have you seen these two mad women running backwards and forwards across the road from a taxi rank to a bus stop?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, it's probably us that are being hunted down, not any taxi drivers. We found them we found the mad women. Need to know if they've escaped from anywhere. Paul was hysterical when I was telling him he was absolutely wetting himself. I mean he did say what were you thinking in the first place, but yeah, when I was telling him how it all kind of went down, he was just uh you two just shouldn't be let loose. But we said same time next year, we'll do it again.

SPEAKER_00

So I've got a feeling that uh uh Rob and my best friend's husband think the same whenever Emily and I go out without either one of them. And we don't have a safety rob because her husband's called Rob as well. So we always call it we've got a safety rob to look after so that we're not menaced to a society. They they were very uh we know the fact that many messages were back and forth when we were planning her Hendu. Right. We were like, what on earth? What kind of state are they gonna come back in?

SPEAKER_02

Well, you know, I I need to like caveat this in the fact that there was no alcohol involved. We did this completely sober. I don't drink, and she doesn't drink actually, so there was no alcohol. We actually came to all these conclusions with a complete, like sober mind.

SPEAKER_00

This is just the way your brain operates. Clearly, yeah, right. So, what are we what are we meant to be talking about today?

SPEAKER_02

Well, we are talking about decision making and where decisions come. Well, actually, it is relevant because we did make a decision and then we made another decision out of fear, really. But the so it is it's really relevant. Why are you saying we can't pivot? We can. That's like absolutely relevant. Are you making decisions from possibility or protection? So where are your decision making coming from? And I think we're gonna come from two different perspectives on this today, aren't we?

SPEAKER_00

I think I think so. We might we might meet in the middle somewhere.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, maybe not perspectives, but well, perspectives, yeah. We won't necessarily be disagreeing, but different perspectives on the way we kind of describe this, if you like.

SPEAKER_00

Because I think you know, when when we talk about making decisions, um, and we we used to talk about this all the time about you know being in your comfort zone or stepping out of your comfort zone, you know, are you making those decisions from a place of possibility or protection? Um and when you're in your comfort zone, you know, it can be really easy to just kind of stay there and and be quite happy. And I and I know that you used to be an advocate for um staying in your comfort zone. And I was and I'm like, no, step out of it because that's where that's where that's where possibility happens, that's where opportunities open up when you step out of your comfort zone. Um you know, nothing can change when you stay in your comfort zone. And I think that's you know, worthwhile thinking about of actually are you making that decision because you can see the possibility in the opportunity. And sometimes it doesn't work, sometimes it, you know, sometimes it does fall flat. I mean, for me, the the decision to start the business was from that, oh my god, this this could all fail. This could all, you know, I could end up with egg on my face and and look at the the failed business owner, but I could also turn around and say, Well, I I I tried it and gave it a damn good go to to try and make it work.

SPEAKER_02

It's that mindset thing though, isn't it? Because it's it's either I had this conversation last night, actually, it's either you go into something thinking I don't want to do that because it's scary and I could fail, or you go into it saying, I might fail, but I'll never know if I don't try. And it is that kind of possibility. My approach to it is slightly different, and I feel like this is a little bit ironic because I'm gonna get my sensible head on now and I'm gonna go into my trauma-informed capacity, and I can only hear shifting your voice, like your voice is already sort of gone from the neurotic variety to the yeah, and bringing my voice down. And you know, I don't blame anybody if they don't believe that I am actually a certified somatic trauma-informed coach after sharing that story. Um, but I do look at, and actually, a lot of that was the nervous system. I look at things from a very kind of different perspective now, where I think, you know, there is that fear and that that comfort zone. Comfort zones are there because you feel comfortable. It's literally that is your nervous system protecting you all the way. Yeah. Whereas when there is an opportunity and there is a chance that you might fail and or there are risks involved to it, our nervous system automatically shuts down. It automatically says, No, you don't want to do that, you can't do that, because there's been a situation in the past that felt a little bit like this and it feels scary. So we're gonna distract you and make you do something else.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

So can I go into some nervous system blurb for a minute?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

So there's you know, what would you have done if I'd have said no?

SPEAKER_00

I think I would have done it anyway, I just would have ignored you. I was gonna say, the thought that you would just apologise for going into it, but you know, we're gonna. Did I?

SPEAKER_02

Did I yeah, I probably wouldn't.

SPEAKER_00

Can I go? Can I go into this? Sorry, can I can I go into this? Yes, you can.

SPEAKER_02

Um, well I'm not sorry, I'm gonna talk about it. So the nervous system is really, really clever. So it's kind of the signals that your brain tells your body. So there's things like um, you know, when you say about having a gut feeling, yeah, but that's not woo-woo, it is an actual thing. Your gut is actually telling you something. So if you get a gut feeling about something, the chances are you're right, or at least the message your brain is sending is right. But the nervous system literally is designed to protect you, it's not there to make you happy, it is there to make you safe. That is literally what it's designed for. We've all got a nervous system, and it's where like fight, flight, freeze, and fawn comes into it. So we go into different parts of our nervous system. So if something feels really dangerous, we might go into fight or flight, or if something feels kind of um that we just don't want to go there, we might go into freeze, like being asked a question on the spot, especially with kind of ADHD or any neurodivergent condition, that's like a um a threat. We've all got these like things in our brain, it's like a scanner. I always describe it as a lighthouse, and it's scanning for threats constantly, and it's all attached to the nervous system. So when something doesn't feel right, and it's all it's all, excuse me, unconscious, by the way. You don't consciously know you're doing it, but your nervous system is putting barriers in place to keep you safe. And some you have to get to a stage where you start to recognize those signals, and you can say to you physically, I have conversations with my nervous system now, and I always say it's I think we said this before, it's like talking to your inner child, it's that little girl inside you, you're talking to her, and you're saying, Do you know what? I know you're trying to keep me safe, but actually, I'm okay, I've got this, and having the confidence to kind of step out and go with it, but that takes a lot of work, it takes a lot of kind of um time and effort. It's not over. Yeah, absolutely. It's and it's an ongoing journey for all of us, clearly. It's you know, even when you're highly qualified, you're still kind of you know, in fight or flight, and you know, you just get neurotic. Um, but actually, if I looked at the physical symptoms on Saturday night, my heart race was the heart rate was beating faster, my um mouse went quite dry. I could feel that pit of the stomach nervousness. I didn't like the situation I was in. And it can happen, like I said, really unconsciously. So you could walk into a meeting, for example, and suddenly feel really nervous, but you don't know why. That is your nervous system sending you signals because it feels familiar. We've got, you know, our hippocampus in our brain, which is where it holds all of our memories. We can't automatically remember every single part of our life. We'll remember key points in our life. It's it's like a camera in the brain. You remember, you know, significant memories, but your nervous system remembers every single thing you've ever been through. It remembers everything. So when you're in a situation where you might walk into that room and you don't know why you feel nervous, it's your nervous system scanning for threat and it feels familiar to something you've done before, an environment you've been in before. So it automatically puts those nervous feelings in because that's a distraction from what's actually happening.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

So it is not there to make you happy, it is there to protect you. So when we have situations where we need to take risks or we have opportunities, or we feel like, you know, this could be really great, but that's really out of my comfort zone, and the fear kicks in, that is literally your nervous system kicking in to protect you. But it is okay to say, Do you know what? I know what you're doing, but I need to step forward, I need to just try this, I need to go with it.

SPEAKER_00

And I think the language that you use when you're in that situation is so important as well. So, you know, um, so for example, that this um around about this time last year, I was given the opportunity to speak on a stage in front of 200 people, having no prep time, basically. And of course, my nervous system went absolutely, oh my god, like screaming at me. And I was like, you know, take a few deep breaths, you know, going through that process and going, okay, I have it's not I have to do this, it's I get to do this, and talking to myself and saying, but you get to do this, you know, you are one of three people who was given this opportunity, and you get to maximalise on this, you get, you know, and understanding as well, like fear, um fear and anticipation are just adrenaline pumping through your body. And when you understand that actually it's the same drug that's going through your brain, that your brain is, you know, adrenaline spikes, which makes our heartbeat go faster so that we are ready to fight, flight, you know, those kinds of reactions. When that adrenaline spikes, actually understanding, you know, okay, I feel this because like, okay, how do I want to use adrenaline? Do I want to use it from a fear perspective and run away?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Do I want to use it from an excitement perspective? Because fear and excitement are the same thing.

SPEAKER_02

They're just gonna say they're the same emotion. I always say this to my daughter because Molly will say, like, she's always got stomach aches, she's always got a bad stomach, and it that is a thing with kids, it will always be their stomach because that's nerves. It's their stomach is telling them that that there's something to be afraid of here. But the feeling of fear and the feeling of excitement are exactly the same thing. So what you just said was really important because you said you then question yourself and say, Why am I feeling this? That's a bit we miss out. When we start to think, why am I nervous about that? Or why do I think I'm afraid? Why do I think I'm nervous? And we start to kind of really dig into where that could be coming from. We could start to realise actually, I'm not nervous, I'm really excited, but I don't know what to do with that excitement because my nervous system is saying this is a threat, and it's not a threat, it's not, it's exciting. It's the same thing.

SPEAKER_00

And I had it, you know, last week where it was like I went to Atomicon, and Atomicon can be so overwhelming for people. Um, and lots of people, you know, it's the first time that they go to Atomacon, and they will always ask veterans like myself and go, okay, what's your biggest tip for for Atomicon? And I always say, look after yourself, you know. If you're feeling overwhelmed, understand where that feeling is coming from. Is it overwhelmed because there's so many people? Great, they have quiet spaces. Go and use the quiet space until you've calmed your nervous system back down to be able to step back out and go meet some people. Um, and you know, I've had it where it's like I've gone into those rooms exactly as you said, you know, gone into those networking spaces or those meeting rooms, and I'm like, I feel that that stone in the pit of my stomach, that that sinking feeling like my you know, my insides are being pulled down. Yeah. And it's like, okay, why do I feel this? Oh, because I'm really passionate about, you know, when I go into an onboarding call with a client, or you know, as we talked about with the rejection episode a few weeks ago, when a client messaged me saying, Can we have a chat? Um, interestingly enough, I did see one of my clients who would listen to that episode, and she went, Oh, I'm I'm I've made a note that I never I'm never just gonna send you a message now to say, Can we have a chat? She'll say, Can we have a chat about XYZ? Yeah, which is lovely. So hi Lucy, if you are listening to this episode. Um, but you know, those those sinking feelings, it's like because actually I care, because actually I I love my clients, you know, if they have have messaged me to say, can we have a chat? And I have that fear response where I want to protect myself, it's like, okay, the reason why I'm feeling like that is because I I love what I do, I love what I do for my clients, I love my clients as well. Um, you know, I don't work with people I don't like. Yeah. Um, so those feelings, and it's like justifying myself so that actually I'm safe in that that opportunistic and that possibility realm. Um, because you know, nine times out of ten my clients are like, oh, can we explore something else? Can we explore, you know, I don't know, trying to pick, you know, can we explore doing reels or video content because we've not done that before? Yes, we get to do that. You know, it's not, oh my god, you know, I've got I've got to do that. It's I get to do that.

SPEAKER_02

I think whenever we feel nervous about something in business, we have to really question why and think, um, am I just protecting myself? Is my nervous system protecting myself, or could I see the possibility? I won't go into this because I think it would make a really good episode again. But there is Carol Direct came up with growth mindset and fixed mindset and the difference between the two. And it is about reframing things. But the great, the beauty about it is it's not an over, it's always a journey when you're working with your nervous system and you're understanding it, it is a huge journey. But the great thing about when you start to reframe things and you start to question things and you start to step out of your comfort zone and you do those possibilities, you start seeing them as possibilities or or safety, the more you do it, the more your nervous system learns that actually this situation is safe. So you almost have to come out of your comfort zone to retrain your nervous system to understand new versions of what safety looks like. But if you're not prepared to do that and you're not prepared to take the risks and you're not prepared to come out of your comfort zone, and unfortunately, as much of an advocate as I was for staying in your comfort zone, you know, I need to keep it real and it just doesn't, the magic doesn't happen in your comfort zone. You've got to come out of it. It absolutely doesn't. And if you don't kind of if you stay there, then nothing amazing is going to happen. If you don't, if you just listen to that protection side of you, your business isn't going to grow. You have to start really looking for those opportunities and those possibilities. And that, okay, so this is scary, I might fail, but actually I'll never look back and say, I didn't try it, or what if I succeed? One of the biggest lines I used to say to people was when they'd say, but what if it goes wrong? What if it doesn't? What if it goes right? And it's this powerful question. It's it's as um relevant.

SPEAKER_00

I used to um hear, and I'm I'm sure it comes from a book, and um forgive me for the fact that I um can't recall the title of the book, and it's like, you know, what if I fail? The response is, but what if you fly? Yeah, you know, what if you failed?

SPEAKER_02

It wasn't a book, it was actually a quote from um The Wizard of Oz. It was what if I fail, but my dear, what if you fly? Is it from Wizard of Oz?

SPEAKER_00

I know I've read it in a business book. I've read it in a business book.

SPEAKER_02

It might as well, but the the wizard and I only know this because well it might not actually, I might have misquoted that, but it comes with a lot of kind of mems and things that are with the red shoes, and and it it's the quote is what if I fail, but my dear, what if you fly? Yeah. And I always thought that was really lovely because it's and that is exactly what we need to do. It's like there is a possible if there is a possibility of growth and excitement, jump on it. It doesn't matter. The worst thing that's gonna happen is it doesn't work. Yeah, the best thing that's gonna happen is that it does, and it's gonna be exciting and it's a journey, and it's lovely and it's amazing, and your business grows. We have to stop looking at what if it fails, what if what if it doesn't go right, what if I can't do it.

SPEAKER_00

But I think you also need to answer that question as well. So when I was first contemplating starting the business, as you well know, um, you know, I went to a lot of people and sort of asked their advice, and I sat with it for a while and going, okay, so if I don't try this, then I'm down the job centre and I'm I'm looking for jobs. If I try this, what happens if I fail? Okay, well, I'm down the job centre and I'm looking for jobs and I'm I'm job hunting again. But if I try this and I I fly, I'm never going to be employed again. I can work my own hours and I can do my own thing and I'm never restricted by somebody else. And it was like, wow, okay, so if I don't try this thing, then you know I get consequence A. If I try the thing and it goes wrong, then I'm back to consequence A, which is a is absolutely fine. You're not using anything, are you? No, I wasn't, you know, so answering what happens if you fail.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And you know, if if you fail at something, are you worse off than you currently are? Oh, well, yeah, okay, financially, yes, you may be. Um, but you know, there's a there's a um great I don't know again, I don't know. I've got it from a book somewhere. That's um oh no, it's Carl Owen's title. Carl and Lowenthal will absolutely advocate for the fact that you know money comes and goes. You know, don't you know, yes, the the whole spend money to make money kind of phrase that comes up, but money comes and goes, it's like water, you know. If you try and hold on to it, you can only hold on to water for so long before the dam bursts, right? So you have to um you know view it as that kind of thing, the fact that it it has a flowing, it has a flow to it, money, money does. Um, but you know, what if you fail answering that question and really going, okay, am I am I happy with that consequence? How am I am I happy with, you know, could I live through that? Um and if the answer is yes, we'll we'll give it a go.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. I used to do something. It was really funny because it came from a program, and I'm desperately trying to wrap my brain to what the program was, and I can't remember, but it was about um, it was so good. Um it was about three siblings, and the program went back and forth to their childhood and where they are now, and it was amazing. And one of them had one of the brothers had a lot of anxiety problems. So him and his wife used to, when things, when they had to make decisions, they'd say, Let's catastrophize, what's the worst thing that can happen? And they'd start there, and then they'd go, Okay, so that's not the end of the world, that's not so bad. So the worst that can that can happen is not actually going to end our world. And then they'd go, So what's the best thing that can happen? Yeah, and it would always be more powerful, always. And I use it in life now because it's amazing. If something, if we need to take a risk or we need to make a really big decision, we sit there and we say, What's the worst that can happen? Now, what's the best that can happen? And the best always outweighs the worst, it always shows you why it is worth taking that. I mean, sometimes it will show you that it's not because it's not the right decision. We're not advocating for going to make every decision on the planet because it goes back to strategically making decisions for your business. But if you're not making strategic decisions because of fear, that needs to be addressed because you can't grow in fear, you can only grow in courage and stepping out of that comfort zone.

SPEAKER_00

That's why I really hate the phrase of like, oh, I'm back to square one. Well, no, you're not, because you can never go back to square one because you've at least tried something and worked out what doesn't work. So, you know, if we apply that strategic thinking that we talk about, um, and we employ well, at least I'm at square two because I tried it and I'm, you know, it hasn't worked. But I've learned something, you know. Um, there's the the quote again of you know, failure. Fail stands for first attempt in learning.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Um, you know, you can't ever go back to square one if you've taken a step forward um, you know, into that possibility.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I agree. And it's like the biggest kind of innovations that it is it was it Bill Gates or something that had 187 attempts in his father's garage before he actually got it right.

unknown

And

SPEAKER_02

Was just failure after failure after failure, but every single time it was like, okay, so this is what I did that time, this is what I'm not going to do this time. And it was every single time he just improved on it because of the lessons he learned doing it. It's absolutely it is. I completely agree with that. I think, and and I'm a huge advocate for failing as well. I think you should and I teach that a lot. Why are you so scared to fail? Because failing is going to teach you. You're not failing, you're learning. It's an educational experience. You are learning from that experience. You're going to do it better next time. You can't get really good at something if you don't at least fail once. You can't, because it's just unless you are extremely lucky.

SPEAKER_00

But even the the biggest out of luck, it's not it's not about yeah strategy or business mindset or mindset. It is pure luck. If you, you know, take anything, for example, you know, uh, if I were to try the the world record of a high jump next week, yeah, and I managed to do it, that would be luck. It would not be through getting it wrong, through trying a high jump, and and yeah, it's yeah, it's just stupid to think the fact that you're gonna get it right first time and and trying to is what's damaging to your mentality, you know, that that will that will give you anxiety, trying striving for perfectionism. Perfectionism, perfect doesn't exist.

SPEAKER_02

Well perfectionism, perfectionism is one of the it's fawn, isn't it? It's um it's people pleasing, or not sorry, it's people pleasing, not perfectionism. But perfectionism is is a trait of the nervous system, it is very much a and it's also a neurodivision trait. Um you know, not publishing or not doing something until it's perfect. That's just holding you back massively. It's holding you back.

SPEAKER_00

Definitely. It it's so when you're coming to a decision, think about the the possibility. Like, you know, your your body, your nervous system, your brain will will be screaming at you to to stay in that comfort zone, to stay in that place of perfect protection. Oh perfection, sorry. Oh no, I just apologize. I was doing so well, I've been doing well for weeks. Um, but yeah, you you have to approach it from a place of possibility, you know, and that get to. I mean, I speak to so many people when it comes to their marketing, their visibility. I was having a conversation with somebody this morning um who was saying about, you know, oh, but you know, I I I don't know how to be more visible. I don't know how and it's like, but you get to explore actually a new process, a new part of your business when you when you step out into your marketing. You get to you and it's it always comes back to that. I get to do this thing, I get to try this, I get you know, um and how lucky are we that we get to do those things?

SPEAKER_02

I know it's incredible, it's so powerful. We get to do those things, whatever it is, we get to do it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's it's every opportunity that you know, yes, okay, I've talked in the last few weeks about you know making sure it's a strategic decision for my business, but then it's uh wow, I get to do I get this opportunity to go and do this thing.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, it's amazing. I think for me, I mean wrapping it up a little bit, but wild Wednesday wild words of wisdom. I haven't said it for a while. That was impressive, I think. Um my words of wisdom really, and it's it's questions that we were going to ask, but I think these are kind of words of wisdoms because when you're sitting on something and you're not sure what to do and you feel really scared to do it, and questioning yourself and asking, am I working through, am I working towards a possibility or towards protection, asking that question is really powerful because you start to think, what is holding me back? What is really holding me back? Because the fear is the symptom. There is a cause underneath it, you know, those nervous feelings, that anxiety you're feeling, it's a symptom of something going on underneath. So when you start to question yourself and say, why am I working from a place of protection rather than possibility? You know, understanding whether you're playing it safe because there's fear there, um, that's when you start to get real answers and you move forward. I don't know if that made any sense, but you've got to question your. And I always say to people, question yourself constantly. I talk about it in context of equality, diversity, and inclusion. It's like question yourself, why did you make that decision? What made you say that? What made you do that? What made you go to that person? Because I think, and I've learned in this the older I get, self-reflection is incredibly powerful. So when you're working from that place where those butterflies are going and your heart rate's rising, and you're terrified to make that decision because like when you're booking a taxi, like when you're booking a taxi, um, because everything inside you is saying, don't do this, this isn't safe. But actually, that is your nervous, your nervous system is incredible, it is designed to protect you, it is your friend, but you have to teach it that you don't need that protection. But it's it's lovely that it's there, and thank you very much. But I don't need that right now. I need you to know that this is safe, and you're almost teaching your nervous system then what is safe and what isn't. So you're reversing that relationship, which is incredibly powerful. But you can't do it if you don't stop and explore first. You have to ask those questions. Why am I coming from a place of fear? What is so scary about this? What am I scared is gonna happen? What's the worst thing that's gonna happen? What's the best thing that's gonna happen? What do I get to do if I go with this?

SPEAKER_00

And I think I mean I was gonna say something along the similar lines. Um, because neuroplasticity, I've I've fallen down a bit of a rabbit hole with neuroplasticity, is the fact that we get to question ourselves. We get, yeah, you know, we are we are intelligent creatures, um, we are intelligent animals, and we get to question our chain of thinking. And actually, the more you do that, the more you can understand yourself, the more you can actually adapt to certain situations. And like you say, you get to control that nervous system um into understanding what's safe and what's a threat. And I think that that you know, get comfortable with asking yourself those questions as to where is this coming from? Why am I feeling this like this? Yeah. Um, taking a few seconds before you make a decision to go, okay, okay, I feel fear, I feel the adrenaline pumping through my body. What is the root cause of that? Where is this coming from? Why do I, you know, ask those questions?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, how many of the decisions you're making right now are actually about staying safe?

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Powerful question that is.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. I think we'll we'll leave the the listeners with that. But you know, by all means come and say hello on Facebook and on Instagram and in our Facebook group as well. Um, so definitely tell us your thoughts on this episode, whether this has sparked something from you. Have you realised while you're listening to this episode the fact that there are decisions that you're holding yourself back from because your nervous system is screaming there's there's a threat here when there's not actually an opportunity.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. And if you don't know how to ask yourself those questions, put it in the group and we'll ask them for you.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

All right, thank you for listening.

SPEAKER_00

And we'll see you next time.

SPEAKER_02

See you next time. Thanks for spending this time with us on Wildly Intentional.

SPEAKER_00

If this podcast sparks something for you, take it with you and act on it.

SPEAKER_02

Don't forget to subscribe, share, and come and say hello online.

SPEAKER_00

And remember, bold talk leads to big breakthroughs with no apologies.